OU DPP OU Viability Ranking: mk. V

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DPP OU Viability Ranking
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Welcome to the DPP OU Viability Rankings topic. In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in DPP OU and what tier they should fall under.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each DPP OU pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.


S1 Rank
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Jirachi

S2 Rank
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Latias
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Tyranitar

A1 Rank
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Clefable
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Skarmory
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Heatran
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Breloom
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Gyarados

A2 Rank
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Metagross

B1 Rank
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Rotom-A
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Gengar
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Flygon

B2 Rank
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Gliscor
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Hippowdon
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Dragonite
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Starmie
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Zapdos
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Swampert
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Empoleon
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Suicune
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Azelf
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Bronzong

B3 Rank
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Scizor
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Magneton
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Magnezone
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Lucario
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Infernape
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Machamp

C1 Rank
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Donphan
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Kingdra
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Quagsire
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Celebi
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Aerodactyl
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Blissey
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Roserade
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Forretress
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Milotic
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Mamoswine
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Uxie
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Abomasnow

C2 Rank
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Nidoqueen
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Raikou
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Gastrodon
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Togekiss
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Cresselia
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Froslass
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Rhyperior
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Gallade

D Rank
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Camerupt
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Shaymin
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Heracross
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Qwilfish
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Ludicolo
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Weavile
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Slowbro
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Hariyama
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Tentacruel
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Smeargle
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Crobat
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Claydol
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Registeel
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Vaporeon
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Cloyster

E Rank
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Venusaur
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Mesprit
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Hitmontop
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Kabutops
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Cradily
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Yanmega
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Electivire
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Jolteon
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Steelix
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Moltres
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Spiritomb
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Snorlax
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Slowking
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Staraptor
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Alakazam
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Dusknoir
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Porygon-Z
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Honchkrow
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Porygon2
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Aggron
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Umbreon
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Feraligatr
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Omastar
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Torterra
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Azumarill
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Walrein
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Exeggutor
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Hitmonlee
 
Last edited:
Thanks for tagging me, and I think this is a great idea! Here's what I was thinking for my viability rankings for tldr:

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I've largely finished filling in the descriptions, but here's another tl;dr -- pretty much everything in S-A+ warp the tier, but Rachi and TTar more so than the rest. Think Meta belongs this high up w its general utility and one of the main reason rachi has somewhat lost its iron grip on the tier alongside lefties tran. Skarm fall down to A, but still great, clef a little further back bc offense slant of the meta, think gyara and dnite need some exploration but define HO, Empo is fantastic rn imo, as is suicune for its ability to softcheck HO and generally be annoying to almost any team style on the right team. Rose spikes on the rise (rose, gengar, cune, flygon), paraspam (zapdos, starmie, machamp, blissey) a little further down, HO (azelf, gyara, dnite, sometimes uxie, empo, meta) on the rise, stall a little on the downswing, zone balance (zone, clef, gliscor, slowbro, breloom) a little on the downswing. I think qwilfish and kingdra are the only swift swimmers worth using in pure rain (although def on the rise) (ludi might be worth it not on dedicated rain). Celebi and scizor are due for a rise w offensive np and sd, respectively. In the future, maybe we'll see the meta in more of a defensive dominated state like predug ban, but rn, offenses and balances feel pretty good to play.

S Rank:
:jirachi:
Although it doesn't have as iron grip over the tier as maybe it did pre-dug ban, I (and i think many others) still think rachi is best mon in dpp. Defensive WishTect rachi is still chokes out a lot of offenses, all of its cm sets are still threatening, as are its mixed sets and anything in between. It has a huge effect on the tier, almost forcing lefties on otherwise offensive mons like heatran, zone, or pert so they can withstand repeated ih while letting very slow builds like paraspam run no scarf bc it can kinda handle dd'ers w body slam + iron head. I think the meta has well adapted to it, so maybe the other s mon will overtake it in future iterations, but today, I think rachi belongs as the top S. Some sets I think deserve some more usage (if they havent already) include toxic + iron head, hp ground mix rachi, cm + iron head, and cm wish rachi. Idk how i feel about band, but it did like 70 w fpunch to zone when i tried it, so maybe?

:tyranitar:
I think tar is the only other mon that can fit in S, as although many mons "define" dpp, Rachi's blanket checking, Iron head, and versatility as well as Tar's (special) bulk, Pursuit, and Sand (among other things for both) give it its identity. Tar really can fit on almost every archetype, dd sets can fit on HO, super bulky set w lefties or a scarf can fit on stall, utility sets can fit on bulky offenses, and pursuit/band can fit on offensive paraspam, among others. It provides an instant check to Lati and Tran (if it avoids the burn) among others, and spinblocks starmie pretty well, letting you fit more options on your spikes stack. I think theres still a lot to explore w tar, from the coverage options, speed, and item on utility sets, the stone edge slot on scarf, the non stealth rock/pursuit slots on super bulky tar, and the coverage on ddtar. I think subpunch and band (outside of just w otr zong) should prob get some more love.

A Rank:

:Heatran:
Heatran is interesting to rank. It is the best Rachi (and most steels in general) counter in the tier even if rachi can tech for it w HP ground, it is one of the best lures in the tier for water/special walls/burning ttar with magma + Boom (and sometimes Taunt/will o). Defensive sets can be quite restrictive in the builder w repeated Lava Plume burns and its huge bulk. It can be a terror to offense w or w/o tspikes w SubTect or SubMetal Sound, and it is one of the best sr users in the tier (can lure in star that way too) as well as can be one of the few rotom absorbers will-o besides clef. However, I don't prescribe to putting it in S, cause for all of its advantages and love of no longer having to worry about Dug, it can't do all of those rolls at once -- if you run rocks, you feel you're missing a critical coverage option, and you're almost forced to run lefties to stay alive long term against jirachi unless you have other rachi options, defensive sets often wish they had five slots. I have a love/hate relationship w scarf, cause using it as speed control means you better have a good option for dd'ers unless you plan to boom on them/lose to ddtar. Tran really is on the borderline (after reading some of the arguments below me), and I think there's definitely an argument for S. I think some sets that should get some more usage are LO (it really is a great lead), Taunt, SubBoom, and Modest Will-o sets as well as the bulky set plume set.

:Latias:
Latias, despite its dislike for the three mons above it, feels right here. Its either the three best general scarfers in the tier with rotom and flygon w its ability to only need two attacks + access to healing wish + trick, its the best spore absorber (don't get pursuited!) w specs, its defensive sets can feel impenetrable, and can even sweep w cm sets (although I don't think they are viable as they were w Dug). Its resistance profile is great for providing some more help against offensive waters/loom/tran/zapdos. Speed is definitely getting dropped on this thing, on pretty much every set but scarf, and I think it'll continue to be one the key pillars on pretty much every style but HO. Some sets I think should be used more are Roar on the defensive set, a little bit more speed on modest specs, and maybe CM + Twave

:Metagross:
I think Meta definitely deserves a rise up the viability rankings, as both lefties and trick iron (as well as like agility and scarf) are imo really good rn. It is such a great blanket check to pretty much everything in the tier; its so bulky that max hp doesn't really die from full to anything except heatran and like banded flygon/swampert, and even w/o any bulk (ala the agility set), a resistance berry is all it needs to tank a DD hit for example and explode. It is one of the best leads in the game, it gets up rocks really well, the lefties (and trick iron set if you're willing to blow the trick on it) really help offense stay alive against opposing wishtect jirachi and clefable, it lures Rotom/skarm/zap really well to take advantage with something like ddtar or CMCune. I feel it won't rise much more than this, but I really like meta here, it just provides a ton of utility and can fit on pretty much anything. An underrated set (besides the ones I've mentioned) is band, although I think the first four sets will do you just fine

(my writing was getting pretty lazy here previously, this section and beyond is rewritten as of May 6th)
:Breloom:
I think loom belongs this high up bc of how restricting it feels in the builder -- Spore + immunity to status + healing in sand + strong fighting stab makes it one of the best noob killers in the tier. I think loom is one of those dpp staples that is largely immune to the weathers of the tier bc spore is so good and it is still one of the better ways to break stall combined w other breakers, as well as be generally really annoying for offenses w its bulky set. It certainly likes Dug being gone. I think it belongs in a+ despite not being as splashable as the others simple bc of how debilitating loom can be to poorly built teams. Some sets that I could see being used more include w/o spore like sd + protect, protect in general, and the good ole bulky sub punch set

:rotom:
Rotom is this high up for me bc although it isnt quite as splashable as the mons before, it, like loom, has one of the more debilitating tools in the tier w its bulk, resistances, and access to will-o-wisp. Like Tran, rotom is one of the main threats I feel teams need to account for wrt to burn, as resttalk rotom can sit on a lot of offenses forever and just burn them. It is also key on a lot of spike stack teams bc it is immune to spin, but its not quite as essential as it used to be in that regard. It is prob the best general scarfer in the tier (hot take I know) as w trick and its coverage/speed, can revenge/cripple just about everything. SubSplit (or even charge beam) sets are not quite as good as they used to be, but are still quite good. Just watch out for ttar! I think sub sets should be used more, as well as general utility weather clearing sets too (w rock or even colbur)

A Tier:

:Skarmory:
Like Excal before me, I also believe Skarm should be brought down into A tier. I think metagame forces over the last year have shoved it down a peg, as it doesn't have as iron of a grip over the spikes role w Rose's prominence, nor does it enjoy the zone builds that took advantage of no Dug/were gaining prominence even before that. However, it does like how many offenses can flat out lose to it ability as a wall -- I like to not use double hazards on it for this reason. Skarm I think belongs here, but is due for a bit of resurgence as both a heavy offense hazard stacker (it is probably the best in the game at getting both sr and spikes up quickly) and as a wall, esp w rose spikes pushing mag balance down a peg. I think Taunt should get some more love, as well as maybe even endure salac berry.

:Clefable:
Compared to my peers, I have somewhat less of an opinion to Clef, although it certainly is still fantastic even w/o Dug enabling it. Clef is still the best general special wall in the tier, as bliss can only really used on spin teams or very specific offenses and the other options pale in comparison. Clef's toolset is fantastic in general, w Encore (pls use it more), healing wish, a usable special attack stat (it doesn't have to just be cm), alongside the classic sr and knock. Clef has warped the tier, similar to mons above it, but I feel the adaptations on how passive it can be at times have really hurt it (such as w Loom, HO in general, rose/skarm spiking on it, Gengar, etc), so much so that I've knocked it down here. I could definitely see it being A+, and it was in previous iterations of the metagame. Some sets I think could be used more are special attacking sets w/o cm, healing wish, and trying to fit it on more balanced builds than hard stall.

:Gengar:
Gengar is definitely one of the winners of this iteration of the meta w rose spikes prominence and people exploring the options beyond sball and blast. A Gengar w its glasses on (ie hitting blast and will-o) is one of the scariest threats to face, as it only gets stopped easily by the relatively predictable scarf tar. LO sets really punish offense w speed and power while still being threatening to stall, bulky sets are good at crippling everything and nailing stall, and I still feel gar has a lot to explore w explosion, destiny bond, all kinds of cool coverage and utility. Like in ADV, there is always a gar set that can mess you up. I think sleep talk is def a cool option, as is trick black sludge, destiny bond, and even classic ones like counter or subsplit. just don't use hp fire, pls

:Swampert:
Pert is one of my more used mons, and for good reason, bc it feels so versatile. It can be really fat or be pretty fast, hit from special or physical or both, be a great sr user, be a pretty good status absorber w refresh, and generally be a pain in the butt for offense teams to deal w. Something I've been doing is running some decent defensive investment on my offensive perts, like 108 def w max hp to help tank like ddtar better. I think Pert might be due for a rise, as it is great on pretty much any style but HO and can be stylized in many different ways. However, I don't have quite as high of an opinion of it as my peers -- I think this is more up to how good the above mons are than pert is bad. Lets loom in a little too easily at times, weak to (toxic) spikes and can feel walled somewhat easily depending on the set, but I love it for how dependable it can be on all different kinds of offense. I think Protect and curse pert deserve a bit more love as well as refresh sets being great against defensive tran and rotom.

:Gyarados:
I think the meta is just starting to explore how versatile gyara can be. No longer relegated to either just an endgame sweeper (or older dpp players might remember as just a fat wall), gyara has been explored as a lure w both wacan and cb and one of the best ways to abuse swampert. It is one of the pillars of HO in this gen, as well as I think the old resttalk set is pretty good in this meta (Fighters are largely useless against it, forre is good alongside it, Intimidate is great). CB and early dd sets are one of the better enablers of SD empo due to weakening water resists, and using it early in this fashion before rocks get up helps mitigate its weakness to SR. I think there also is some exploring out there for it beyond the item slot, with coverage beyond just waterfall eq and ice fang (someone showed a LO double edge set that could be cool). I think the meta has adapted a bit to it, but so has gyara w like wacan and lum but be on the lookout for gyara's rise.

:Dragonite:
I think Dnite and Gyara belong together as destructive sweepers that can blow holes for each other. Gyara is more versatile and has more defensive use, which is why it gets the nod from me, but Dnite I think is still quite underexplored compared to gyara. Dnite has the more immediate power w outrage (koing pert at +1 sometimes is glorious) and has that immediate priority. Defensive DD and defensive sets in general are quite underrated even if they need a ton of support. Dnite is also a pillar of HO (not as much as gyara but still) bc of how almost any team can lose to it and how it breaks open walls for others. CB can 2HKO anything in the tier and has really strong priority to boot. I have problems sometimes on how easily it can die at times to sand + SR + potentially LO and how slow it can be even boosted. It also isnt quite as good as a breaker bc of that nasty ice weakness.

:Suicune:
People who watch my games know I use a lot of suicune. I feel suicune, despite on how specialized the builds can be w it, is quite effective at checking just about any team w the right set. It can soft check dd mons w offensive sets, its bold crocune sets are fantastic win cons, and sub sets are great in both rain and on rose spikes. It really needs to be support well, but w Water spam, stall, rose spikes, and rain, cune can feel unbeatable in some match ups. HO really struggles w it, balance can get run over by it, even stall can fall apart against cune quite easily. It really likes a grounded poison type, as well as a way to help bust through water resists and skarm/rachi, but with these (like in rose spikes) it can be great. I think Roar should be used a bit more, as it can just 6-0 if you get in a cm war, but cune really is fantastic.

:Flygon:
I think Flygon is on the up swing right now. It is one of the best scarfers in the game, its LO set can really bust open stall (although I also agree it isn't quite the world beater everyone thought after spl), and the CB set is still really good. Gon has always been a good scarfer (its one of the best tools against HO), but I think people are making good builds to showcase its utility among many sets (rose spikes, w trick iron or zone a la august balance, LO + spikes). It also loves being largely immune to hazards and has roost to boot, so it can abuse those rest talk rotoms and bulky Trans from earlier. I think the defensive set might be rising, although still want to see some tourney success w it. It is a great way to bust through bulky teams w hazards down

:Gliscor:
I also find Gliscor quite similar to Flygon. Both are ground types w recovery largely immune to hazards that can bust through stall (gliscor w taunt/knock/being annoying and flygon w LO mix or band). Gliscor also has a great defensive niche due to how bulky it is and the toolkit it has. It doesn't shut down stall quite like it used back in the day, but SD sets and general bulky sets are still really good. Gliscor also is somewhat of a loser in this meta, as stall is a bit down and it can't quite get through its checks (lati, waters, Gengar) like Gon can. However, it is still a great way to shore yourself up against Fighters and general physical threats. I still think it belongs up here w much it can shut down some teams w taunt and its bulk profile. I think the specially defensive set is due for some love, as well as branching out on the SD set w items/coverage.

:Empoleon:
Empoleon is fantastic right now, almost so much I want to put it higher in A. I think people are finally branching out from just the agility and lead sets and exploring its fantastic typing and movepool. I always feel empo puts in a lot of work when I use it, whether as a balls to wall offense on either physical or special side, a tank sr setter a la the august set, or a fully specially defensive set. Even specs can be quite effective against stall teams. It's one of the better lati absorbers in the meta, as well as has a unique niche against water spam and rain. Knock, coverage, roar, sr, it has a lot of options to be useful in a game to game basis. Agility (w or w/o petaya) and the lead are still great too. I think it can fit on pretty much any team and is quite due for a rise in the metagame.

A- Tier: (might flesh these out w more time, but the order is set in this snapshot of the meta imo)

:Roserade:
Talk about rose spikes doing well and some new found versatility w scarf and offensive spikes, but still frail. epitome of an A- threat. due for a rise

:Zapdos:
Fallen a bit in the meta due to being a bit useless against defense, really liking spin (hard), and only really fitting on specific para teams/stall for the defensive set. However, off sets are monstrous against HO, defensive sets (w spin support) shut down some offenses like little else, and scarf and agility still feel quite good. Still looking for the next great zap builds

:Magnezone:
Zone's utility is great, I think people were overblown in discarding balances w it in favor of rose balance. I've been experimenting a lot w zone offense too, and its working quite well as skarm has had a bit of resurgence in the meta.

:Bronzong:
One of the classic anti-offense tools, I find zong a little bit harder to use nowadays, but is still quite good w zone support. Think OTR is bit bad in this meta, but trick sets are good and still like tank zong and defensive zong for its ability to set up rocks well and wall what you need to. It is a pillar for rain too.

:Azelf:
The classic HO enabler, think Azelf is due for a rise in the meta. Think people have started to think more versatile against it, but for me, I can only go so high on a mon that has essentially one good niche that is does very well.

:Uxie:
The other good enabler, Uxie belongs right up here w azelf. It is slightly worse at the HO enabling, but is better in midgame utility as very bulky anti-offense and getting rocks/knock/status

:Machamp:
Still as scary as ever, a full HP machamp is one of the more frustrating things to face in dpp. I think previous iterations of the meta were better for it, but shoutout to being one of the better ways to deal w DDTar in the meta. Paraspam is a little underrated right now, while behind screens it can be quite menacing.

:Kingdra:
Inconsistent, but still quite good on like rain (specs kingdra is the best rain abuser in the tier). Think the DD sets are ok, but its the main rain mon for a reason.

:Starmie:
I had starmie a lot lower originally, bc of how much i despise using the bulky spin set or the colbur/LO sets but the specs set really is what the doctor ordered for this thing. Four attacks (or three attacks w trick is best on thing, but trick + spin aint bad either. Wrt to its bulky spin sets, they just feel really meh to me, especially as people have started just using their sr weak mons earlier where as ones w more midgame utility like zapdos have fallen a bit. Still really essential for those paraspams/defensive teams, I just hope we see more specs running through offense

:Lucario:
Another very inconsistent threat, luke I think is due for the same early game wallbreaker treatment that dnite and gyara can be used more. It doesn't have quite their versatility, but I think w like endsalac and other innovations like the resistance berries, luke can maybe return to its prominence on some HO teams.

B+ Tier:

:Blissey:
I think Blissey is due for a rise, as it really has incredible utility in the right match ups and has a huge movepool. Be on the lookout for rises in the future w different teams than paraspam and the occasional blissey offense and hard stalls.

:Nidoqueen:
Nido is another pillar of stall and is one of the better sources of tspikes in the game. Think previous iterations of the meta were better for it, but again works great on many versions of stall

:Abomasnow:
The tree I think is quite underrated, as SD has really revitalized its offensive sets even as the old leech versions are a little bad due to clef and generally being slow and weak. Hail hits almost everything, and sd can work on both offense and very defensive teams if you build around it. Shame it has so many weakenesses

:Scizor:
I think Scizor is due for a bit of a rise as well. While the mighty have indeed fallen, Scizor's offensive SD sets feel better than ever, w zone often being slow, rachi commonly not running fire punch and the general speed of the meta making bulkier answers less common. Still looking for a great HO build w it!

:Celebi:
I think celebi is due for a bit of rise. Even w the crippling weakness to tspikes, uturn, and its proclivity to be set up on, Celebi has quite a unique defensive profile. NP sets are good in my opinion (maybe a bit of a hot take)

:Hippowdon:
Hippo, destroyer of offenses everywhere and providing sand. Still think it has a bit of versatility left in the tank, but it is truly great at getting (and w the dropoff of starmie and spin and general, keeping) rocks and sand up.

:infernape:
This B+ tier is really where I put all the oh how the mighty have fallen mons? I do think ape is rather bad right now, as it really misses power, and if it gets that power, it dies super quickly. It has almost no defensive niche and only really can get in on doubles. I do think those random ladder teams mess me up when i don't account for it, but ape is in dire need of some innovation, as it really struggles in the current meta.

:Heracross:
I think hera is super underrated. It is p great imo on paraspam as a general faster cb threat, esp as gliscor usage is trending downwards and it doesn't have to worry about dug anymore. Megahorn and CC hit so freaking hard, and it has some cool versatility on its cb slots, not to mention how destructively powerful its sd sets can be. Be on the lookout for this thing!

:Milotic:
As one of the few great water resists in the tier, Milo can be back breaking to water spam, HO, and rain in general at times. Again, I think previous iterations of the meta might be better for it, but Milo still puts in work game to game on balance teams and on hard stall.

:Forretress:
Ahhh forre. I think forre is also due for a much needed resurgence as a semi reliable rapid spinner against non resttalk rotom teams. I think its usage fell off a cliff a few years ago, as it required a ton of reads just to get enough free turns to do what it was supposed to on stall. However, w the rise of protect on it, I think it is ready for a comeback on hard stall. I've run boom, eq, even counter in that last slot. Just focus on what makes it good (spinning and spikes) and don't try to overload it too much (primary dragon resist and stopping offense) and you'll be just fine w it.

B Tier: (beyond this point, I think the ratings are a little movable -- the above are pretty locked in imo)

:Qwilfish:
Qwil is pretty mandatory on rain nowadays I feel like bc of its general utility over other rain sweepers. I am also curious to see if it may have some utility outside of rain w tspikes, boom, taunt, twave, and others.

:Togekiss:
I feel kiss liked previous iterations of the meta better, but it still can put it work as a trick scarfer or as a general nuisance w subroost nasty plot on paraspam.

:Mamoswine:
Mamo always feels on the cusp of viability, but it just falls short bc its attacks outside of eq are so weak and it just a tad bit too slow w its weaknesses and vulnerability to hazards. Knock off sets can put it work though.

:Mesprit:
Mesprit is actually awesome, I wish I could put it higher. It has a lot of utility, it is really fat. I think it could work pretty well over the midgame azelf people below are describing.

:Donphan:
Man I remember when donphan was memed as a horrible spinner in dpp, but excal has shown it can put in work w the right support w odor sleuth and rest.

:Slowbro:
The older version of the meta were deffffinitely better for slowbro, as it hates rose spikes w a passion, but minus that mu, it can feel unkillable at times. Being the best machamp counter in the game as well as good stop gap to dd mons is also fantastic.

B- Tier:

:Tentacruel:
Tenta can actually be quite effective in this meta, as knock has really revitalized it and it doesn't have to worry about Dug. Still think it is way too vulnerable to common threats, but I think we still are waiting for the great build w this thing.

:Camerupt:
Camel! Camel actually has quite the role to play on HO. I think its builds are being explored more even though it is quite niche. I used to discount it until I used it in action and it can work pretty well on the right squad.

:Venusaur:
Think Knock off sets could be cool, sleep + more bulk than rade is cool. Think it def should be explored more.

:Moltres:
It's great, but I've only really seen it on that Excal team that everyone and their mother spammed on the ladder/non-mains in team tours. I wish it didn't need so much support bc its toolkit is really great.

:Rhyperior:
It hits unbelievably hard, but it only really fits on a specific style of paraspam. Hard to make work elsewhere

:Staraptor:
Staraptor is 100% underrated and should be explored more. There is little better than clicking banded adamant brave bird from the lead and like 2hkoing TTar w a good roll. Shame it is a little useless against stalls that have phys def rachi and/or rest talk rotom.

C+ Tier:

:Vaporeon:
Specs vap is a fantastic lead, it really can set off water spam really well if Pump accuracy cooperates. Shame it lost bp, and wish sets are unviable imo.

:Quagsire:
Quag needs a team built around it, but it really can invalidate a lot of offenses w its v unique toolkit

:Raikou:
I think Raikou is due for a bit of a resurgence, as it really can put in work w its movepool, power, and speed. However, it really needs a grounded poison type partner (rose) and can still struggle w defensive teams.

:Ludicolo:
I think the days of classic ludi rain are a bit over, but I think it can find a new roll as a one-off rain sweeper or as a general utility mon.

:Cresselia:
Cress really took a hit with its main enabler in Dug being banned, but it still has quite a niche. Its a fantastic dual screener w lunar dance, it is so insanely bulky, it also has some pretty good CM sets if you're willing to support them w Zone/TTar removal.

:Shaymin:
How the mighty have fallen. I think Shaymin is a bit underrated, as seed flare can really stack up some damage and it has great stats. However, it doesn't really enjoy meta trends and really wishes it had more moveslots some times/hates t spikes w a passion.

C Tier:

:Yanmega:
Specs mega is a cool lead, it is also one the best loom sleep absorbers until loom started running protect. It still is a tad unviable w that insane sr weakness, but I've seen it put in work. imagine if it was dragon/flying!

:Weavile:
Weavile is one of those mons that sometimes I forget about in the builder and crits and freezes me when I face it on ladder. It's alright I guess, but it is so incredibly vulnerable to everything while having attacks that don't hit hard enough.

:Gallade:
Coco loves this thing. I really havent gotten it to work well, but I see the potential. Maybe one day

:Froslass:
Dual Ghost spikes teams are cool. Makes it a little hard to cover everything, but this mon is cool, definitely could see it more in this meta as an alt spiker.

:Gastrodon:
I personally think gastro is pretty bad even before dug ban. Even w a perfect set-up team and against the right opponent, it always felt vulnerable to luck and smart play against stall, and it got manhandled by a lot of offense. Interested to see how it adapts/how it doesn't in this meta.

:Kabutops:
Similar to Ludi, I think the days of Kabutops rain are over. It just doesn't give enough utility to rain. However, it is still pretty decent at sweeping.

:Claydol:
I guess I need to experiment more w the TrickScarf set, but it seems pretty good. Definitely niche, but has all the right utility.

:Crobat:
I often forget about crobat in the builder, but it can be quite effective as a stallbreaker.

Everything else
 
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I already posted mine in the other VR thread, but I'll repost here with a few comments on some of my choices:


Heatran in S Tier: Jirachi and Tyranitar are closer to each other than they've ever been and I had to think for quite a while before I ranked these two. Heatran is on their tier level imo because these three warp teambuilding and are by far the most versatile and consistent pkmn, bringing so much to the table that the others in the tier below don't quite match. Heatran is probably my biggest paranoia in the teambuilder, and for good reason. Lava Plume in particular makes counterplay quite restrictive sometimes in the builder and you really have to plan out how exactly you will deal with a Heatran, wear it down, and not give it chances to pop off.

Gyarados in A+ Tier: Gyarados to me is one of the best Pokemon to use on a momentum-based offensive team. Rather than trying to spin for it and use it late-game to sweep, I find it most useful as an early game pkmn that breaks, gains initial momentum, and wears stuff down enough for threats in the back. It can function as a flygon countermeasure and lure of several pkmn with Wacan Berry, and when u look at all the pkmn ranked higher than it on the VR, it can stand its ground against all of them, even Rotom which it can consistently wear down with Waterfall. It's one of the best ways (maybe the only way) to use Swampert to set up, and its versatility is unexplored to a decent extent. On top of that, it provides great defensive utility with its typing, intimidate, and nice natural bulk. Big fan.

Skarmory in A Tier, Empoleon is amazing, Gliscor vs Flygon: Skarmory has always been in the A+ tier, but I think nowadays it's an outdated take. The main reason for its descent into the A tier isn't even Magnezone, but the significant rise of Spikes Roserade. No longer is Skarmory the best Spikes setter by a longshot uncontested. Skarm is underrated regardless to me. It's an incredible defensive mon, Spikes setter, and has some wonderful role compression that pretty much nothing else offers. A key piece of stall and a great offensive spikes setter with its Taunt suicide set.

Empoleon ranks quite highly for me because I feel like it is very difficult to play around with its several sweeping sets which are so unique from each other (SubPetaya, Agility 3 Atks, and SD). In addition, it can be molded very easily to fit its team's needs with more versatility than most of the tier it's in. I find that I am able to consistently get a ton of value out of Empoleon whenever I use it, supported by its amazing and unique typing that helps with key resistances and utility. In addition, it's a super good anti-cheese mon with good mus against Togekiss, Rain, and Screens.

Gliscor and Flygon should be one apart from each other imo, and they have a lot of similarities. Flygon has been one of the biggest winners in this metagame because of Heatran's rise, stall's (slight) decline in usage, Clef trending a bit down, and offensive teams being the flavor. Both Flygon and Gliscor are really difficult to wear down (similar hazard resistance) and put in work vs both stall and offense. I think MixGon, while minimally overrated, is a tremendous asset rn due to its incredible offensive coverage, power, and defensive utility in one (working well with Roost against Heatran + RT Rotom). Its scarf set has never been better either, imo, playing a key part in Roserade balance's upward trajectory and doing quite well against pretty much any offensive team (HO in particular). Gliscor is awesome but it doesn't radiate the dominant energy that Flygon has right now, and I'd say Flygon gives offense and stall just a little more trouble generally. Gliscor's lesser versatility than Flygon also means it struggles with its checks more consistently, like bulky Latias, Gengar, and bulky waters. That said if you have Glis > Flygon I 100% respect that lol.

Infernape's colossal fall to B+: From the VRs I've seen so far, Infernape seems to unanimously be low B+, which makes a lot of sense. Infernape to me has barely any desirable traits. It is not a consistent breaker, it has terrible durability (weak to all hazards, sand, not good defensive typing), and even with its stats, it has power issues and strongly desires +SpA nature to have a chance to OHKO Jirachi with Fire Blast. There's just too much going against Infernape right now: Protect everywhere, defensive Latias is great, Jirachis are bulky, Gengar is great, Scarf Flygon is a pain for it, and hazards + sand are very popular. Infernape has its matchups where it will put in work but I just do not see it as consistent in any capacity. On top of that, it is very difficult to build around Infernape and it requires a lot of support. Imo for MixApe to put in work it really needs Spikes and poison absorb (Roserade) or Healing Wish, which is just not that easy to fit. Let alone its 4MSS is real bad and it's always missing out on something crucial. It's shockingly similar to Forretress because they either have mus where they are amazing or they have mus where they can't really do much (RT Rotom mus tend to suck for forry).

Sakito — Yesterday at 7:12 PM
dude you HELLA undervalue ape
ape sucks but come on LOL
thats such a disrespect
ape is A- to me

---

Sakito — Today at 1:08 PM
consistentcy, splashability, durability, easy to use
these are 4 good metrics

Excal — Today at 1:09 PM
ape is none of these btw

Sakito — Today at 1:09 PM
LMAO
im inclined to agree that ape is none of these
but still

Excal — Today at 1:10 PM
"wtf ape is so low"
"I'm inclined to agree that ape is none of those things that should make something viable"

Sakito — Today at 1:10 PM
ergd<S
it hurts me to say it yea
i wont rank ape lower than forry tho
that still stays
ape is bottom of A-
to me

Qwilfish at the top of B Tier and Donphan hanging on: I'm a huge fan of Qwilfish for its typing, its high versatility within its role, its offensive toolkit (SD, Boom, Swift Swim), and its utility in poison clearing. It is an absolutely mandatory Pokemon on pretty much any dedicated rain team. I really like it and wonder if it has potential outside of rain (it may), but what it does to facilitate rain is wonderful and deserving of a respectable B ranking imo.

Donphan has spin, nice typing and defensive utility (good vs Tyranitar, Jirachi, can kinda hold its own short term vs Zapdos Rotom Heatran, hard to KO in one), and it also denies any DDer from setting up esp when it's at full cause of its EQ and Head Smash coverage. In addition its Odor Sleuth + Rest set can be a nice dedicated hazard removal and the best way to spin vs RestTalk Rotom. Definitely requires support and is niche but it's a cool mon that I won't drop off of B rank for now.

Camerupt's rise to high B-: If I ranked Camerupt any higher than I did, I'd certainly be roasted, but I noticed quite a few people actually agree with my placement. Camerupt has fantastic utility and these days is actually not that hard to fit on a team. I wrote a bit about what it does in two places: the DPP creative sets thread and SPL discussion when I talked about the spl semis team featuring it, so I don't wanna do a whole writeup on it, but it's definitely serviceable and viable on the right squad. Sakito has made some cool stuff with it maybe he can comment more.

Thanks for reading my post, I will probably submit some different Pokemon on the C rankings when I give Emeral my final rankings. Looking forward to more posts here!
 
I'm not one of the eligible players whose opinion will make a difference in the final VR, but I do ladder frequently & consistently in the 1500 range on a number of alts, so here's my (bad) opinion on the VR.
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S is ordered, but other than that I'm pretty lax on ordering within tiers. In my head, criteria went as follows: S is for the most defining mons. A+ is for incredibly consistent performers that don't quite warp the metagame the same way. A tier is a lesser A+, where I'd say every mon is either versatile enough or strong enough in their best role that they'll pull their weight regardless of matchup.

A- is where Pokemon typically become slightly more hit or miss, imo. They still have strong enough upsides that they're in the forefront of my mind when teambuilding, but the weaknesses are just greater than those in the tier above them. For example, Suicune can obviously just auto-win some matchups in certain situations, but in my experience it's equally likely to leave you wanting for the power/sweeping ability of Kingdra or Empoleon, while being easier to wear down than both. My mind can easily be swayed, but as of right now I view these Pokemon as slightly lesser than those in the tier above them in terms of effectiveness.

B+ is the last of what I really consider "OU" in my head, sorta niche performers that are still effective but clearly weaker than everything in A (imo). Infernape is just so damn easy to wear down and check. Uxie is a passive lead that has none of the unpredictability nor exerts any of the pressure that its brother does. Forretress is a passive bitch that doesn't spike or spin especially well, but does compress the role I guess. Etc. B tier mons are gimmicks that can work but are matchup fishy (ranked all the rain guys together for this reason). Cradily isn't something I consider to be actually good, but I've admittedly lost to last slot Cradily more times than someone who holds that opinion should, so it's here.

I'm not the strongest or most experienced player, but I do love this tier and the direction the metagame has gone since Dugtrio's ban. I look forward to reading the posts of my betters and seeing how the final updated VR turns out:psyglad:
 

Fakes

I COULD BE BANNED!
I plan on posting / submitting at some point but I really think Jirachi needs a tier of its own. It is beyond versatile and fits on every team. Not sure if rachi S+ or tar S- is the play but yea.
I agree honestly. Jirachi is likely the best glue in dpp. one of the most potent sweepers rn (sub cm) a potent rkiller and a game opener in using uxpected coverage like hp ground for tran, gk for pert etc. I support to put Jirachi above Tyranitar or do a seperat ranking for those 2 (rachi s+ and ttar s-).

Why u bois hatin' on my boy Starmie nowadays?!
 
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That's roughly it, everything above A- is locked.

I wanted to do full write ups at first but unfortunately I'm too lazy for that lol. Here's a review of some of my thoughts instead:

Jirachi and Tyranitar are locked in S rank thanks to their massive influence, versatility and how much they both dictate the metagame. They both fit in basically every team and can adapt to every type of structure. Jirachi has toned down a little bit with the ban of Dugtrio and the progressive rise of Magnezone, Metagross, Empoleon, Swampert as well as the prominence of Heatran. Tyranitar's Sand is a very important trait in the tier and helps keeping a lot in check naturally (think of Milotic, Zapdos, Latias and Suicune) while being a way to deal with Rain which isn't uncommon and has proven to be consistent.

Similarly to those two, Heatran excels in literally every aspect and similarly influences the metagame because of its versatility, typing and massive offensive power. For such reasons I would see no issue with it being S rank, I'll just keep it in high A+ for now (it's really close to S though). Breloom imo couldn't deserve more its top rank; easily one of the most reliable Pokemon due to its immunity to status and Knock Off, it has Spore, incredible typing both offensively and defensively and it heals in Sand. Clefable may seem overranked at first but it makes sense to me to put it this high; Magic Guard makes it immune to every type of passive damage in the game, Knock Off is obnoxious etc. that's as simple and I don't think there's a single better ability in the tier. Metagross and Gyarados both joined A+ because they bring to the table one of the best and reliable source of offense in DPP imo, both very threatening and always very dominant.

Skarmory is insane and should never be underestimated, it slightly dropped due to a bunch of small factors but it remains the best Spiker and one of the most essential Pokemon to defense as a whole. Gengar is straight up amazing in my eyes; indredible Speed, great Special Attack, a wide movepool and a wonderful typing that brings excellent defensive utility and allows it to fit on a lot of teams. The only thing holding it back from leading A or being in A+ imo is its susceptibility to Scarf Tar, which is quite common I feel on defense and hazards oriented balances. Dragonite and Empoleon are massive menaces to both offense and defense, you can always get great value out of them and they are quite hard to play around. DDnite is one of the best proven wallbreakers in the tier while both Agility and SD Empo are massive threats and aren't easy to handle. Gliscor and Flygon are comparable in many points; similar typing, both outlast hazards, they are immune to Sand and are hard to wear down. Gliscor on one hand can be a massive roadblock to offense and is very hard to be taken advantage of, Taunt shutdowns defense and passive teams hard and can be a pain to deal with. Scarf Flygon on the other hand is arguably the best Choice Scarf user thanks to its ability at being very resilient and U-turn which always keeps positive momentum. MixGon has rose in popularity as well due to its offensive strenghts and ability at switching into both Lava Plume Heatran and RStalk Rotom, which is a very desirable trait in the tier. Magnezone has very unique utility and is really consistent at what it does, helps keeping in check and cripple the best Pokemon of the tier. Its typing and strong Electric moves are also more useful than they appear to be. Zapdos is a forgotten threat that is harder to fit onto teams nowadays, usually because it's deadweight vs defense and that Spinning is hard. It still remains a terror for offense and should never be disrespected.

Suicune leads A- by its virtue of being one of the best "soft checks" to offense; its bulk allows it to take on a bunch of offensive behemoths like Gyarados, Dragonite, Metagross, Swampert and Bronzong. Its Sub CM sets and all its variants can be lethal as hell with good support, CroCune is really good and can spiral out of control really fast. Roserade deserves to be ranked this high; it's the staple of TSpikes balance and pure enabler of that archetype, can set up both TSpikes and Spikes, has Sleep etc. Its offensive utility is also underrated. Can't say Bronzong has shown to be dominant lately but its typing is really useful and OTR Zong is a real threat, unfortunately mandates Magnezone to stand a chance vs Stall. Choice Specs Starmie is superb, offensive is good, Spin is pain. Azelf is the emblem of hyper offense and is pretty much the best and only one at doing what it does, should be enough to justifity it at this rank. Uxie in large is like a way bulkier Azelf without Explosion, very good anti lead and Knock Off makes it extremely annoying. Kingdra and Lucario are similar Pokemon in some ways; they usually feel like a hit or miss for the most part. Choice Specs Kingdra is absurdly good especially on rain, by far its best abuser, while DD sets are good they feel like they come too short sometimes and requires some good support. Lucario is one of the most constrictive Pokemon in the builder while being not too convincing in game, however Life Orb reminds some teams it exists and Endure Salac allows for very interesting utility.

Concerning B+, Milotic is one of the most reliable water resists in the tier (which is rare) and Hippo is an excellent defensive Pokemon, staple of pure defense/balance. Both have very valuable assets (Haze and Sand respectively) and can be huge concerns for offense, the thing is they usually require very specific support and don't fit on every team, that said they are very close to A-. It pains me to say it but Infernape has fell a lot, and is far from being reliable. It usually feels too much like a high-risk high-reward Pokemon, doesn't bring much defensive utility while not being as outstanding as it used to be offensively. Forry is a good Pokemon but feels a bit too underwhelming at times, although definitely has its uses with Spikes and can be considered as a more reliable Spinner than Starmie.

I won't go any further rank wise, however I wanted to comment on the Camel: I wasn't completely sold at first when Excal introducted it to me, however I gotta say that it has extremely desirable traits. It opens wide new possibilities in the builder and allows for some very atypic archetypes of offense, as it blanks both RStalk Rotom and Zapdos while being threatening to Tyranitar, Heatran and defense as a whole thanks to Lava Plume and Explosion. It pairs really nicely with all of Empoleon, Metagross, Gyarados, Superachi and Lucario. I can only recommend that you try it for yourself, it's also really fun lol.
 
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With SR / Gyro / EQ / Boom @ Lefties, Steelix plays like Metagross / Bronzong with some notable differences. It out-heals SR damage and its gargantuan physical bulk lets it take on all sorts of physical monsters much more easily. This is incredibly useful for teams with a specially offensive focus that tend to be soft on the physical side. Lix's Dark resist is excellent against CBtar and it takes nothing from Jirachi's Fire Punch. The Electric immunity is highly valuable as well (and further cements it as an excellent Jirachi check). Depending on the team, you could feasibly fit Roar (something Meta / Zong can't do), Protect or Toxic on it as well.
 
Adding onto BKC's post, I found value in Steelix when I wanted to role compress a soft check to both Zapdos and DDtar. While Zapdos can run Heat Wave, it's pretty rare and imo the scariest variants of Zapdos do not have it. Steelix insane defense lets it kinda soft check any DDer to some extent which is pretty cool. Ngl, it can be nice vs Jira but if Fire Punch burns then it's real dire, esp because Steelix is not that powerful and EQs won't do too much. I messed with a set of SR, Toxic, EQ, and Rock Blast because the last move can actually be pretty annoying to Zapdos subs and it's its best chance and most reliable way of 1v1ing that set (wanted a non EQ atking move too). I like BKC's Steelix set quite a lot too. That said tbh I think it's a bad mon, way too much can go wrong for it and it's super duper niche (so far at least). I'd give it like C-tier viability personally.
 

Emeral

toward new horizons
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
Probopass can run Earth Power + HP Ice to trap both Heatran and punish Outrage locks when Magnezone has to choose between one of the two. Also, it's bulkier on both sides and with sand up, it can sponge those Draco-Meteors from Specs Latias like it's nothing.

252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Probopass in Sand: 72-84 (22.2 - 25.9%)
252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 59-70 (18.2 - 21.6%)
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 119-141 (36.7 - 43.5%)

Its pretty ridiculous but: 252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Probopass in Sand: 184-220 (56.7 - 67.9%)

Don't ask too much from it, trapping skarm/tran can enable cool strategies tho
 
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mael

not the same but equal
is a Community Contributorwon the 14th Official Smogon Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
UUPL Champion
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A few words on things:
  1. I did not look at the mons in a vacuum but rather in what influence they have on the tier, how consistently you get use out of them and how good the teams they fit on are. There's plenty of mons that turn out to be really good against many match ups but the teams they are used on have major flaws. So those 3 criteria are more or less entirely what I went by. Some mons are ranked the way they are purely because they fit on one single team that is pretty good (like the rain mons) and have that speaking for them.
  2. Azelf is that high up because it a) enables offensive teams in general, but that HO in particular, which IMO is one of the most dominant playstyles right now and super consistent and b) because it has more sets than just the lead set and people need to start acknowledging what for example non-lead Azelf with like Fire Blast / Boom / SR / Twave @ Lum Berry can offer for offensive teams. Essentially the same rocks + 1v1 trade utility (except sometimes you get the 2v1 when they run a somewhat offensive team without Tyranitar or try and catch your boom with their steel), while actually also providing a one time Breloom and Jirachi switch-in, that isn't Specs Latias.
  3. The top 3 of B+ are all the same category of Pokemon. Infernape, Zapdos and Heracross are really good Pokemon. But there are very few really good teams that have those Pokemon. On paper Zapdos in particular would probably 6-0 so many teams that are very common and very good (including the HO teams) but the problem is not Zapdos, but rather the structures on which Zapdos fits are both rare and just not that good. Same for Infernape and Heracross. Which is why those are ranked somewhat the same rank and only in B+. The Infernape hate is unjustified though. My week 1 team against Void is impeccable and it hinges a lot on Infernapes offensive utility. You people just gotta start running +atk or +satk and stop using shit like Expert Belt and Life Orb.
  4. Starmie is ranked pretty high, but that is not for its Rapid Spin set, which is still shit, but rather for the Specs Set and general offensive sets, which honestly dominate the more offensive teams quite easily. 4 Atks leftovers is pretty nice, but Specs does everything that Starmie always had problems with, namely being useful in defensive match-ups while still dominating the more offensive ones.
  5. The order of my B rank is probably a little wrong, but the outstanding thing here probably is the fact that Claydol is ranked 4th highest Pokemon with Rapid Spin access. Trick Scarf provides an insane amount of utility. Against offensive teams you get a fast EQ, fast Boom and emergency spin, against defensive teams you might never spin but you get a potential 2 for 1 by tricking one mon and exploding on the other. It is so useful in so many games. I use it on a team with Gyarados, Dragonite, Metagross and dual scarf and it just fits perfectly. I actually think I have quite a few Replays on my main account that you can check out.
  6. Anything lower than B is probably not worth being seriously discussed and would be a shocker to see in serious tournament games I think.
  7. This is just a snapshot of my current view on things. Ask me again in a month or two and things will probably have changed by then. I did try to not fall too much into the flavour of the month trap though, but after all the metagame is in a constant arms race and thus keeps changing and sometimes mons improve because of that and sometimes they drop off the radar just to return for the next cycle.
 
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I barely play any tournament and prefer to play on the ladder. I usually have few accounts in 1600s while the others stay at 1500, and got to round 8 winners of Seasonal for my first solo tour so I guess there’s that. I tried to rank these mons based on games with I had vs good players and metagame trends that from specific tournaments.

S Rank : Metagame-defining Pokémon
These Pokémons pack incredible offensive and defensive utility. They can fit many roles and are unpredictable.

Jirachi: It can wish, take dragon stab moves, spread paralysis, CM with tspikes… Jirachi is able to fits many roles. While Body Slam + Iron Head sets are what pushes Jirachi to S tier, the unpredictability of its sets is why I rank it above Tyranitar. I think mixed jirachi in particular is very good right now.
(Serene grace has no place in competitive Pokémon)

Tyranitar: Tyranitar is the best pursuit trapper in the game, and adds tremendous offensive utility with sand. Very unpredictable, but less than Jirachi, Tyranitar fulfills any need for a team. Dragon Dance, CB, spedef rocks, scarf, mixed (curse? Jk), it is a decent contender for n°1. The removal of Dugtrio only benefited Tyranitar, weakening Jirachi’s throne and making Heatran more popular.



S- Rank: More than just top-tier
Latias and Heatran don’t have the unpredictability of Tyranitar and Jirachi, but their awesome typing and stats make them very influencal, more than the typical A+ mon.

Latias: Latias’ typing make it the third most splashable Pokémon in the tier. With Draco Meteor and base 110 speed, it threatens most of the metagame and has easy entry on the field. Great fit on offense and BO, it also works on stall and balanced with its CM and reflect sets. Jirachi and Ttar keep it in check.

Heatran: Big winner of dugtrio’s ban. Leftovers Heatran can punish most Jirachi variants and provides a useful dragon resist. His spedef and trapping sets are great tools that made Tspikes rise in viability. With all his weaknesses and lack of variety in his sets, you can’t put it on every team, but it is very, very desirable on a good amount of them.

A+ Rank: Top tier
Staples of the tier

Metagross: Great threat to the S tier Pokémons. Agility Metagross can be found on the popular offensive teams, but also as a lead where it excels. Leftovers gross is also a great option to mess with wishtect jirachi teams that can’t really hurt it.

Breloom: Ban Sleep. Even outside of that it’s pretty good with poison heal and fighting/grass typing.

Rotom: Wacan Gyarados, Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Spikes Roserade all hurt rotom’s viability, in particular the scarf versions. On the bright side steel resist becomes more and more valuable nowadays.

Gyarados: Wacan and leftovers sets are very effective. Gyarados is also a good threat to the Toxic Spikes teams that rose a bit in popularity.

Clefable: Dugtrio's ban hurt her. It's still the primary special wall thanks to knock off and magic guard.

Gengar: The Wisp version is a good countermeasure against wishtect jirachi and in general against any form of non-scarftar stall. Gengar only needing 2 moves in shadow ball and focus blast gives him versatility with moves like explosion, sub or pain split. Scizor is played less and less which only helps Gengar’s case.

A Rank: High tier
Good mons that have a favorable metagame environment

Roserade: Roserade benefits from Heatran’s jump in viability. It also does not fear to get trapped, allowing it to set many layers against mag balance/stall as well as good matchup against opposing spinners.

Azelf: Offense/HO rose and Azelf is great on these type of teams. Since aero lead is dead and froslass is super rare, bulky azelf lead has a great lead mu spread. Screens and CB still exist and are still viable, 3 attacks rocks isn’t the greatest imo.

Skarmory: Skarmory suffered from magnezone’s popularity (and shed shell sucks), mixed jirachi and use of stuff like paralysis that leaves it open to get haxed. However Skarm is still skarm, awesome typing, spikes, recovery are all great traits that keeps him here.

A - Rank: Standard tier
You can make most teams with this tier and above. These are good Pokémons with a less favorable metagame environment

Starmie: Teams don’t resort to spin that much, making starmie less valuable. It has loses to rocks clefable and spikes roserade which hurts it.

Zapdos: Zapdos suffered from starmie’s decline and faces some competition as a fight answer from reflect latias. Dugtrio’s ban not in Zapdos’ favor in general.

B+ and B: Strong niche picks
The end of OU + some UUBLs. These can put a lot of work but are less consistent than A- and above.

Lucario: Superb Late-game cleaner, unfortunately gets stopped by scarf magnezone, most jirachi and physical walls like gliscor.

Infernape: Life orb and expert belt dies to hazards+ sand which is likely to happen with latias, gengar, starmie and protect. Still gets awesome matchups every now and then.

Celebi: bad typing coverage for offensive sets and defensive sets are passive. Still, grass typing +recover is unique and desirable trait against swampert and breloom.

B- Niche: Usable mons
UU/UUBLs that do a fine job when built around.

Donphan: Can be paired with flyers for good results, offers a tyranitar check and secondary a jirachi check with protect. However it hates roserade, which is more popular than before. Also it typically fits unconventional Pokémons like Moltres and Togekiss, making its niche smaller.

Rain abusers: These Pokémons are only effective in one style of team, but the style is effective right now.

C rank: Cheese
These pokemons can fit in very specific builds and require major adaptations. They aren’t ‘good’ Pokémons but can have very occasional success.

Smeargle: Smeargle is a great punisher against bulky leads like Swampert or wishtect Jirachi. Unfortunately Smeargle teams have to play 5vs6, making consistency on these teams difficult.

Cresselia: Cresselia is pretty much a screens slave now that dug is banned. It is good on this playstyle but far from mandatory.

Crobat: Usually tossed in favor of gliscor, hates steels and para which both are popular.

Dusknoir: 4 attacks custap/belt Dusknoir acts as a catch-all-threat that pairs well with choiced-locked flyers. However, it is completely dead weight against stall so it need heavy compensation for this matchup. Any attempt of bringing defensive dusknoir results in playing with a budget Rotom.

Weavile: Weavile lives in the shadow of tyranitar. It also suffers from the infernape syndrome, as it can deal massive damage to specific teams, but dies to residual damage.

Jolteon: I’ve seen offensive wish sets alongside tspikes that turned out okay. I don’t think it’s very good but I figured I’d put it here in case.

I didn’t include pokemons that I have no experience with (Camerupt) or that I think are downright terrible (sorry Walrein).


I hope everyone enjoyed reading like I enjoyed previous posts and I look forward to see more !
 
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How I ranked:
S : the elite of the tier.
A+ : the staples of the tier, impactful and consistent.
A : very solid pokemon, but with a couple more flaws compared to the ones I placed in A+.
A- : less powerful / consistent / versatile pokemon, whose upsides still exceed their downsides for the most part.
B+ and B- : inconsistent or / and outclassed pokemon that are nonetheless viable in my eyes. I could had included some more pokemon, but I didn't want to add unnecessary clutter (two ranks below A- may already be a stretch) because I think the top-end of the VR is what matters the most.
I had a hard time to decide the exact order of some pokemon within each rank, even more so as I would move to lower ranks. I tried my best to remain objective, but at times it feels we try to compare apples to oranges. The use a numerical evaluation would somewhat alleviate this issue, but I feel the optimal way to rank pokemon is to rank them per role.
Anyway, I am happy I am able to contribute to this update and I look forward to the results. :blobthumbsup:
 

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